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Forums » Character Forums » Other HP Characters » The ghosts of Hogwarts
The ghosts of Hogwarts
Believe it or not, there are other HP characters out there! Talk about them here.
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Pen
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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 03:12 AM
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The word is 'poltergeist', mdani45. Don't forget that spell/grammar check. See my post after yours here.


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Charcoal
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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 08:48 AM
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On the subject of Peeves, JK says that he is a 'spirt of chaos':

Quote::
Peeves isn't a ghost; he was never a living person. He is an indestructible spirit of chaos, and solid enough to unscrew chandeliers, throw walking sticks, and, yes, chew gum. - JK on her website

So, yes, he is quite different to a ghost and never was human.

I'm quite interested to find out more about the Bloody Baron. I had also always assumed that it was his own blood that was all over him; however, if you compare this to Nearly Headless Nick, wouldn't he have bled quite a lot being chopped 45 times in the neck with a blunt axe?! So if ghosts appear exactly how they were at time of death, why doesn't Nick have any blood on him?


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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 03:49 PM
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Yay! Charcoal is a Texan at heart! The Immeritus Texas Barbeque is just around the corner!

*calms down*

So my thoughts on this Nearly Headless Nick, Charcoal...

He was nearly beheaded in a botched execution attempt...just thinking from a practical standpoint he would have been leaned over a bucket for head catching. Perhaps the idea is that the bucket caught the blood.

Also do we have canon saying that they appear just as they died? I'm sorry if I'm confused on this point. I looked and didn't find it and didn't see it at the Lexicon either.

If we do not know for sure that they appear exactly as they died, then perhaps it is something else.

Perhaps they appear in moment on which they dwell and cannot let go. This moment being the impetus to stay behind in the living world. In which case Nick wouldn't necessarily be covered in blood-with or without the bucket. Perhaps the Bloody Baron stays behind due to the act he commited to sustain the blood upon his robes...

Just a thought...

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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 04:31 PM
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BlackDogStar, thank you so much for the info on the Grey Lady. I have been looking for it in the books forever! Also, good point about the Fat Friar. I had forgotten that people were often shunted into positions that didn't necessarily suit them (this son will be a man of the cloth, this son will be a soldier blah, blah, blah). As for people appearing as they did at the moment of their death, it isn't canon. It's a point I made above while discussing the Bloody Baron.

Charcoal, I like your thinking on the Bloody Baron and Nick. Seems like Nick or any beheaded ghost would have some blood on them. Probably not as much as the BB for the reasons that BlackDogStar pointed out, but still... So maybe it is a Dickens thing afterall, where he has to carry around the blood of his victims OR maybe his victim was another ghost? I know, I know... how do you kill a ghost? But think about it, Nick was petrified by the Basilisk so he has to have physical properties of some sort. Also, if Myrtle can blush then the ghosts must have blood in them since blushing is a physical process of having blood rush to your face. So, it is possible that the BB did something to another ghost...

Do you think we'll ever know? I know JK said she wasn't going to do anymore HP related books after book 7, but I'd love to see something along the lines of Fantastic Beasts... You know, a short chapter giving us the histories of the characters. I suppose it would end up being another 700 page book, though! Well, we can hope.

Lunadiosa


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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 01:38 AM
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Well about Nick, he probably doesn't have any blood on him because when he was almost beheaded, he probably would've died instantly when his spine was severed so here's a timeline

1. Blade hits Nick's neck (haha nick's neck, sounds funny...)

2. Blade severs spine, Nick dies instantly

3. Blood leaks on clothes.

But since he was already dead, the blood doesn't matter, I think...


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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 03:43 AM
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Madeye, I'm not sure about that timeline. It would be possible if poor Nick had been lucky enough to meet his demise with one stroke. Unfortunately, it took 45 strokes for Nick to be done in because of the "blunt axe" and his spine couldn't have been severed right away because he says, "nobody wishes more than I do that it had all been quick and clean...I mean it would have saved me a lot of pain...". Come to think of it, that quote also points out that it wasn't "clean". So, we're back to the original question, Why is the Bloody Baron covered in blood? If ghosts that died violent bloody deaths aren't covered in it, what happened to make him bloody?

Hey, Jo!!! Inquiring minds want to know... Laughing

BlackDogStar has an interesting point about the ghost existing as they did in a moment they're dwelling on. For most ghosts it would be the moment of their death, but not necessarily...I like that theory.

Lunadiosa


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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:19 PM
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*laughs* Yay, thanks BlackDog! Good ol' Texas!

I like your idea about ghosts appearing in the moment on which they dwell and cannot let go. It would make more sense than ghosts appearing how they were at the moment of death because even if Nick had a blood bucket, some of it would still run down his neck (plus a lot more ghosts would have to be looking a lot worse than they've been described - I can't imagine they were all peaceful and jolly when they died!). However, the ghosts do all have their personalities and mood changes, so I imagine that even so, they would have changed quite a bit since they died; the only thing that wouldn't change would be their appearance.

It all comes back to why people become ghosts. I think they're probably several reasons, and we've only got Nick's and JK's little bit of info on this. Nick clearly says he was afraid of death and chose to stay behind. Moaning Myrtle wanted to haunt Olive Hornby for teasing her about her glasses, so she had 'unfinished business' as one might call it. Professor Binns seemed determined to keep on teaching. The Bloody Baron, as you said, might be dwelling on the the sinful act he committed (or perhaps just wanted to stay behind and scare everyone!)

A helpful thing would be if an age indication was mentioned for any of the ghosts; I haven't been able to find one so far so if anyone has, then please post it! None of the ghosts seem particularly old, but we don't know if all ghosts appear as the age they were when they died; Moaning Myrtle does, but the moment she is dwelling on was also at the age. Anyway, I'm off to think about this some more.


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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:37 PM
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Hmmm, yes Luna, I guess you're right. I definitely do not remember that part, but it has been ages since I read that. If it took 45 swings then I guess there probably would be quite a mess. I just don't understand, why would Nick use his almost-headless state as being his point that he could not let go?


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Post Post subject: Re: The ghosts of Hogwarts
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 03:33 PM
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MadEye - I'm not sure. Maybe since he feared death he is focused on the moment of his death? It would help if we knew more about his life. Of course, we can say that of all the ghosts! Laughing

To that point, I think Charcoal is on to something about the age. We know that Myrtle is the age at which she died and we know that Nick has been dead for 500 years, but not necessarily how old he was when he died. That info would definitely help answer these questions. Given the other info Charcoal highlighted, though I think this may be our answer. Oh, yeah! What about the Wailing Widow? She obviously died after her husband since she was a widow. If she's wailing about his death (as one would assume), then that wouldn't be at the moment of her death. It would be beforehand.

Jumping up and down clapping my hands! Going to look for more ghost info!

Edit: Well, I found the reference to the Gray Lady and it's no wonder I missed it: "They passed the ghost of a tall witch gliding in the opposite direction..." I mean, how could I have overlooked that?!

Anyway, the other place I looked was the Deathday Party, Bk2 Ch8. I found some gloomy nuns, a ragged man wearing chains, and a knight with an arrow sticking out of his forehead in addition to the ghosts we've already discussed. So, not much more to go on there. The last two seem to be in the moment of their deaths. I suppose the ragged man could have actually been executed or even released and left to live out his natural life, in which case he is appearing at a different time in his life. Since we don't see more about the nuns other than being gloomy it's not clear, but I'm guessing this isn't the moment of their death unless they all died together. So, I think we're still in the same place as before.

Thanks, everyone! This issue has really been gnawing at me and I've enjoyed reading your ideas.

Lunadiosa


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