Sirius Black and Edmond Dantes

Muggle Joined: Jul 17, 2003 Posts: 15

).

Chateau d'If- Place secluded by the Sea, isolated prisoners serve their lives, alone.

Sirius- Remains the only person to ever escape Azkaban

Edmond- Remains the only person to ever escape Chateau d'If

Sirius- Slowly plotted revenge on his enemies, namely Peter

Edmond- slowly and sadistically captured and jailed his enemies

Edmond- Made a wonderful rich life for himself, his son, and his wife

Sirius- Not really dead. We all know he's not really dead. <---In Denial :wah

So, there you have it. Freaky? Coincidence? Me having WAY to much time on my hands? You tell me

1st Year Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 48

I totally, totally, totally agree! And I'm so glad you brought this up...

"The Count of Monte Christo" is one of my favorite novels of all times and I've read it the first time when I was around 10. From that time on I have been intriguided by any book, movie etc. which had some parallels to it.

Well, I liked the Harry Potter books before PoA but when JK introduced Sirius I was soooo excited about it because he was so much like one of my earliest childhood heroes...

Well, Edmond Dantes in "The Count..." has a bit more luck than Sirius, though...

I.K.

1st Year Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 48

Sorry about double posting but I just thought of something and want to bring it up before I forget it.

Have you ever read "For the Term of his Natural Life" by Marcus Clarke? If you like Sirius Black and Edmond Dantes I can really recommend it. The main character Rufus Dawes again is an innocent young handsome man who is falsely accused of murder and is getting sent to a penalty colony in Australia. Throughout the book he escapes several times... There are also many parallels between him and Sirius...

I.K.

Wow... The Count of Monte Cristo... That is what I answered in the thread for "Who are you?" when they asked �If Sirius never existed in the HP series and in some other movie what would it be?�

In other words. I couldn't agree with you more. Although, I'm sorry to say I didn't read the book, but watched the Gerard Depardieu movie.

The similarities are uncanny. huh?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

When you mentioned:

Quote::

Edmond- Made a wonderful rich life for himself, his son, and his wife

In a way Sirius, although for a very short time got reunited with a son-like figure, Harry.

Also, both disguised themselves to achieve their vengeance. Edmond as the Count, and Sirius as Padfoot.

I wonder what else can be squeazed out of this. Maybe I'll buy the book. Wink

~ RJ <img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/dog.gif ALT=":dog]

Post subject: Creepy!!!!! Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 09:38 PM

OMG! talk about reading my mind- I own the movie <span style="text-decoration:underline]The Count of Monte Cristo[/color]- the new one with Jim Caveizal(sp?) and Guy pierce, and was watching it today- and I was also thinking about the similarities between Dantes and Sirius... I was going to write something about it right now, until I saw this thread....creepy... I might have to learn occlumency...

I've never read the book, but with how much I love the movie, I might just have to read it. And for anyone who hasn't seen the new movie- see it, it's really good- not to mention that it had Jim Caveisal, Guy Pierce, and James Cavill- all very fine looking young men;)

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START blue paw

--><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]

~Ms.E

Queen of the Fourth years

Muggle Joined: Jul 18, 2003 Posts: 5

i have actually never read the book, but the instant i saw the film i thought about the lead (jim cav...sp?) and thought he'd make a marvelous sirius black :DD

1st Year Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 48

Yes, I loved that movie version with Jim Caviezal (?) in it. He really would make a good Sirius if he would be British...

There is an older version of it (from the 70ies) with Richard Chamberlain in it which is pretty good, too, although the very best version I know is a French version from 1954. (I'm originally from Europe, so I grew up with a lot of European films and TV shows...)

But again, I really, really can recommend the book, especially if you are interested in history because it links Edmond Dantes' story to a lot historical facts and figures...

I really would love to ask JKR what her inspiration for Sirius was. I'm sure "The Count..." would come up.

Edmond Dantes is the archetype for the innocent person escaping from prison and you find that again and again in literature and film. The last version of this theme I really enjoyed (other than "The Count..." movie) was "The Fugitive"....

I.K.

Post subject: Re: Creepy!!!!! Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 09:37 AM

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. In the book, Edmond acted mainly for revenge, right? He never got the girl back, and that wasn't his son, right? If I'm remembering correctly (from the book rather than the movie), then that is his biggest difference from Sirius. Sirius acted partially from revenge, but his actions in the end were driven by love and loyalty. Other than that, their situations parallel each other quite a bit.

Trace <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START blue paw

--><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]Don't think that they don't have feelings, just 'cause a radish can't scream.

~ "Carrot Juice is Murder" by the Arrogant Worms

Post subject: Re: Creepy!!!!! Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:55 AM

Woah... now that you mention it... They do seem alike. I wonder why I never saw it before. The Count of Monte Cristo is one of my favourite books (and movie for that matter). Thats a creepy close resemblance in character between to two...

Gryffindor Marauder

1st Year Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 48

Trace, you are right. He never got the girl back and the young man wasn't his son (although he was her son).

But in the book Edmond eventually does fall in love again with somebody else so it does have a fairly happy ending. And he eventually gets over his need for revenge. And he also did some good to the people who stayed loyal to him and his family.

Yes, he is more driven by revenge than Sirius is... but Sirius did escape from Azkaban because he knew that Wormtail "Scabbers" was at Hogwarts, so it was one of his main motivations, too, to escape... But I guess he gets over his urge for revenge faster than Edmond did... But nevertheless, I guess, JK did get some inspiration from "The Count..."

I.K.

Muggle Joined: Aug 02, 2004 Posts: 7

Hello Everybody~

OK so I just got done reading The Count of Monte Cristo. Oh my gosh i love that book. and now that you have show me this whole little connection thing I love the book even more. I love to make the comparison of HP to different things. I know about the Lot R and Star wars and some of the other ones but when i was reading The Count of Monte Cristo Edmond being like Sirius never came to me.

Namaarie~

Siriuspig013

Post subject: RE: Creepy!!!!! Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:27 AM

Wow - I was on a Dumas kick when I was 14 or 15. I decided that I was going to name any sons I had Edmond, Armand, etc...lol.

There are some interesting parallels between the two characters. Azkaban and the Chateau d'If (a real prison) are both on isolated islands. Unfortunately, Sirius didn't have an Abbe Ferre to help him keep his sanity - he had to rely on himself for that. He also, as far as we know, didn't have a Mercedes in his past (pity). It also seems to me that Edmond nearly lost his soul in pursuing vengeance - not to mention the fact that he was directly responsible for the deaths of his enemies. Perhaps because the HP books are targeted at children, and because Sirius is Harry's godfather, JKR didn't allow him to act out on his (valid) desire for bloodlust and vengeance. Funny, I just glanced over at the bookcases, and there's The Count...in full view!

I only saw the television versions of this film - the French one with Gerard Depardieu and the one with Richard Chamberlain. Both are well worth seeing - I'm going to have to check Amazon and see if either of those is on DVD. Anyone who likes Dumas should check out the versions of the Muskateer films that Richard Lester directed. While they are very true to the novels, they also have his off-the-wall humor (he was the director of the Beatles movies and MTV named him "Father of the Music Video") and they are a blast to watch. Michael York played D'Artagneon, Richard Chamberlain was Aramis, Oliver Reed was Athos and Frank Finley played Porthos - what a great cast.

I'm another movie bandwagoner, and I love the movie, but sadley the sheer size of the book scares me, so I own it by haven't cracked it open yet.

But anyways, when I saw the movie, the first time, the ending scene when their all at the farm, for some reason that reminded me clearly of the Shreiking Shack scene in Harry Potter, was I the only one. I mean there was a misunderstanding between the son and the mother. Edmund was trying to kill the man that betrayed him the son/Harry think the father/Peter, are perfectly good people and think this other man Edmund/Sirius has is wrong and no good reason to try to kill the other, while trying to protect the one that did betray them. All the misunderstandings and secrets kept so long, as finally able to seep out in this last scene with on clue to bring to light. No time to explain to the young'uns, but there are three who know the truth in each, one is the betrayer. The intesity in each scene even remided me of the other.

I hope I don't have to explain to much why I immediatly recognized this, but sorry for the small specifics, due to my lethargic laziness in not wanting to look names up, and the fact that is has been a while since I've enen seen the movie, my memory is a little scetchy in places. Did anyone else think that, and is it also similar in the book?

<span style="color:purple;font-family:Christmas;] God Rest You, Merrye Hippogriffs

[/color]<span style="color:navy;font-family: comic sans ms;font-size:x-small;] : "You're a complex Freudian hallucination having something to do with my mother and I don't know why you have wings, but you have very lovely legs and you're a very nice tiny person and what am I saying, I don't know who my mother was; I'm an orphan and I've never done drugs because I missed the sixties, I was an accountant." -Hook

[/color]

<span style="color:white;font-family:comic sans ms;] Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

-George Orwell

[/color]Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bsiriusblackfanclub.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fawksfeather@siriusblackfanclub>fawksfeather[/url] at: 8/3/04 7:18 pm

Unfortunately I didn't read the book either.. <img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/sweatdrop.gif ALT=":sweat] ..I just didn't get to it by now, and I hear it's pretty lengthy. Anyway, I saw the movie, like a dozen times, since I own it, and I was thinking about the same thing.

I totally agree with fawks on the farm scene, it just screamed 'Shriecking Shack Scene'. There we have two really old and good friends Edmond/Fernando battling it off from one's sheer crave of revenge. Sound familiar?! It's just so similar to the Sirius/Peter story in the Shack.

There are other things that the two characters, Sirius and Edmond have in common. Gosh I felt so bad about the poor Edmond when he got sent to Chateau D'If - it's like seeing a bit of Sirius' life in retrospective. Only that Sirius couldn't dig tunnels, and he wasn't whipped all the time, and he didn't get to speak to anyone while in the prison.

Then, it's been said that Edmond got a better life planned out, now that he was with his family, thing that Sirius didn't have. Well, Sirius actually did get to spend a bit of time with Harry, whom he treated as a son. But, in the long run I think that we should expect to see a continuation in their story. No, I'm not saying that Padfoot'll be back, I just think that he died for a reason, and we'll get to find it out as soon as book 6 is released.

If we analyze further, Sirius had a life that's a lot more complicated than Edmond's. He had a lousy childhood, he lived to see his best friends killed - we see that Peter did him a lot more wrong than Fernand did to Edmond - and now he had to hide away to avoid being captured, after, of course, having to escape from Azkaban.

My point is that maybe Sirius gave all that he could to the book for the moment, maybe his death was the best thing that happened for the others (don't throw stones please!! let me explain myself first).

*takes deep breath*

OK, see how Sirius' demise affected the others, at specially Harry..all I'm saying is that maybe this will push the characters to a new stage of awareness, it'll make them wiser, and help them control their emotions better in the future. So, Sirius' story isn't actually ending with OotP.Now, in Edmond's case, his survival or demise didn't do much of a difference. As we saw they already thought him dead and learned to live with the thought, so after he came back the writer decided to give him a well deserved happy end.

I'm starting to loose track of my ideas, I think I'll stop now. Just tell me if I made any sense with all this. Wink

<span style="color:black;font-family:Christmas;font-size:medium;]Miruna[/color]

<span style="color:black;font-family:Christmas;font-size:small;]'In order to be walked on, you have to be lying down.'-Brian Weir[/color]

<span style="color:teal;font-family:times new roman;font-size:x-small;]Important!! Check out[/color] this thread in the Daily Prophet <span style="color:teal;font-family:times new roman;font-size:x-small;]to help Immeritus[/color]!! Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bsiriusblackfanclub.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fleur17@siriusblackfanclub>Fleur17[/url] at: 8/4/04 7:22 am

Holy cow! I couldn't get over how different this adaptation was from the book. But, I have to say, especially in the scene where Edmond starts swimming towards the shore after his escape from the Chateau d'If, all I could think of was "Sirius Black!"

I was also sitting there thinking to myself too bad that Jim Cazeveil (?) is American. He's another actor that just physically embodies the look of Sirius. He was absolutely beautiful in the scenes where his baby face was clean shaven - the vision of the young hot Sirius, but he looked entirely different in the bedraggled scenes (although a little too clean for someone who is supposed to be filthy from being imprisoned for 13 years - at least PoA got that part of Sirius's appearance right).

If you want to nitpick about differences between the book and this version of the movie, for one, the Abbe Ferria didn't die after an accident...he died of old age (amazing to see Richard Harris in yet another long hair/long beard part - I miss him!). Danglers was a banker whom Edmond financially ruined. Ferdinand became a count by virtue of his military exploits in the near East (the dirtier parts of which Edmond exposed, ruining his reputation - this included allowing a king/pasha's daughter to be sold into slavery). The part about Villefort's father being a Napoleanic officer was right, but his daughter's name was Valentine and he was trying to marry her off to a noble's son - Valentine was in love with the son (or grandson) of Edmond's old boss the ship owner. Valentine's step mother was trying to poison her in one of the more interesting subplots.

Don't let the size of the books intimidate you - they're very readable! It's no more difficult than reading GoF or OotP. The language might seem verbose by 21st century standards, but if you take the time to enjoy the passages (especially the prose used in love scenes), you might reallly come to appreciate the more formal and lovely ways of expression that our ancestors used. The Count of Monte Cristo is a stand alone novel - a single story line. There are four in the series of Muskateer books, so if anyone decides to read them, start with The Three Muskateers (you can learn to swear in French from them), then comes The Four Muskateers, Ten Years After and The Man in the Iron Mask has the last appearances of the main characters. They are great adventures that are well worth the time it takes to fully imagine and enjoy the richness of characters, time, setting and plot.

<img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/dog.gif ALT=":dog]

<span style="color:blue;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:large;]Semper Maraudus! [/color]