Did anyone else feel that harry's character made a huge jump between OotP and Goblet of fire?

In the fourth book, harry was sort of wimpy, and a bit clueless. i used to think - what a shrimp .

i also thought hermione was really whiny in this book.

No way. I think it was gradual and started with PoA. His devil-may-care attitude about going to Hogsmeade was the start of it. Remember what Lupin said about how he should be honouring the sacrifice he hears when Dementors are around? (Yes, I know some will say it was more fun with him breaking the rules, but that's not the point.) Then in book four, he's a total insensitive jerk to Ron. Yes, Ron's wrong but why be such a jerk about it? If he listened to Hermione and showed some kindness, they would have gotten over their fight much sooner. (Considering how he treated Ron, his relationship with Cho was doomed from the outset.) After a while, Ron was even showing obvious signs of being sorry, but Harry wouldn't take anything but an all-out apology and pushed him away for even longer. He's so pigheaded, he makes himself suffer even more! I think this will change after what happened in OotP, though. His self-confidence has probably dropped a lot since that happened. He may even realise how selfish he's been.

I think it's been hinted at, as it was stated above, but it seemed like she suddenly turned his anger on full blast very very quickly. I was shocked at how often he turned on the people who actually believed him; he only had a few supporters, why screw with them? I can understand his snappishness at those who were mocking or didn't believe, but scolding those who did seemed very... unHarryish. I think it wasn't as gradual as it should have been, but at least Harry has more character definition now. As for the cleverness, nah, he's always been rather clever, I think this is building towards the Auror thing.



Hermione wasn't whiny, I didn't think. On the contrary, I thought she handled his temper very very well, and seemed calm. I think she's becoming more and more interesting throughout the books.



-Siri

~Bitterness: Never be afraid to share your dreams with the world, because there's nothing the world loves more than the taste of really sweet dreams~



Part of the Elite Confused Duo

Harry's mood jump was unexpected, but think about it. You saw someone die last summer. Nobody is telling you whats going on.And when they do tell him something, it doesn't help that much. you ust found out everyone thinks your lying and is a nutcase. The way people have been treating you have changed suddenly. Of couse Harrys angry. Hes frusterated. He's aloud to be Snappy. I would be. I didn't realize how well J.K put his anger in the book, until right now becasue i'm experencing it. And for two of the same reasons. Harry has a temper and we now see it in this book. I think Harrys emotions is the most normal thing about him, and he needs something normal in his life. Also on Hermione i was getting angry at her being a, in the words of Snape, A know it all. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->



melissa <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :pup --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/puppy.gif ALT=":pup]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :xgryf --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/gryf.gif ALT=":xgryf]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

Yes, I found him to become very abruptly angry and snappy- which as Siri said, I found to be very un-Harryish. Although, I do not think this had anything to do with being a teenager or hormones- In my personal opinion, that whole &quot;you become a hormone monster when you are a teenager&quot; thing is just crap- yes, you have hormones, but I think that it doesn't seem to change people that much. Most people change a little bit at hat point, but I think people change constantly anyway. At that point in my life, in fact, I became much calmer, and less snappy (maybe I am just weird?). BUT, I don't think that at least part of the change was totally unwarrented (sp?). He did see Cedric die, and probably feels responsible for it, which was resons for some changing of character- but I don't think to that degree. More to the point- Cedric was just a guy he knew for a while- what will he do in reaction to Sirius being dead? The reaction will have to be exponential- that is why I think something will happen to Harry- either &quot;go to the dark side&quot; or die. I don't think he will be able to bare it- Akthough I hope that doesn't happen.

Oh, and for what most of you say about the intelligence part- that suprised me- I found him very unintelligent in this book- just totally out of it. I found his unintelligence maddening- he was so smart in the first four books, and that is one thing i really liked about him. Yes, he saw Cedric die, but I don't think that was a reason for him to all of a sudden become unclever...

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

~Ms.E

Queen of the Fourth years

Ms. E -

When I started reading the first post in this topic I knew you would have something to say about it. I guess lots of people feel the way I know you so strongly do (based on our back and forth disagreement in another topic)! Anyway, good to see you are still passionate in your criticism (contructive, of course).



Anyway, I thought Harry's anger came on a bit suddenly, but I personally think that it is totally possible for that to happen. People can be moody and Harry is definately that. One minute he is on cloud nine (with Cho or whatever) and the next he's going off at Ron. Harry's got like men's PMS in this book (or maybe a drug problem -there'd be a twist.)



I do remember thinking it was a little out of control that Harry freaked so randomly and so often, but I suppose it had just been building up. And it was frustration, mainly, that he just couldn't properly vent. He snapped at Hermione and Ron because he felt they should not have held back information from him in letters, etc., etc. He couldn't aim his anger at the people he was truly angry with (Voldemort, Peter, etc.), so instead he aimed it at the closest people to him for pathetic reasons. In his mind, his actions were justifiable, but to the rest of the normal world he was just plain pissed off all the time.

And I do agree with Ms. E about the fact that Harry acted extremely unintelligent in this book, due, I think, to his out of controll anger. He did so many idiotic things, it's hard to count. Although, I'm not a Harry hater, as I realize some are. I still love the boy.

I agree that Harry was a bit less clever in this book than in the previous four... I bring up the mirror issue, and his problems with Cho as proof of this.

As to Harry's anger, I had thought that it was at least partially due to his mental link with Voldemort. When he got vivid, out of context emotional flashes, of course he noticed them. But when he was already annoyed at someone, even if he would've been able to control his anger normally, he might not have realized that someone else's emotions were making him act irrationally. It seemed plausible to me, being as Voldie's such a pissed-off character most of the time. It made the sudden personality change seem like it had an explainable cause.

Just something to think about.



~Stormy

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As to Harry's anger, I had thought that it was at least partially due to his mental link with Voldemort.

That's a great point! I hadn't thought about that possibility, but that could be true. Some of Voldy's anger could've been expressed through Harry. They share so many things, why not anger? Very interesting. In any case, I bet I wouldn't be too happy having Voldy's thoughts and feelings in my head. Poor Harry.



Trace <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

Don't think that they don't have feelings, just 'cause a radish can't scream.

~ &quot;Carrot Juice is Murder&quot; by the Arrogant Worms

I was actually somewhat proud of Harry for finally getting fed up with some things- I thought he was a little too passive before. But, nomatter how much the adults angered him, he had no excuse to yell and rant at Ron and Hermione like that.

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i also thought hermione was really whiny in this book

I don't really think so, I was actually impressed at how well she took Harry's unprecedented tell-offs. She had alot more patience than I would have had.



~Kazul

~Kazul

Hehe ilovesirius (do you have a shorter nick?)- how could I resist<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ? I never resist saying something when there is something to say- maybe it is passion, or maybe it is just my stubborness- although I suppose passion sounds better.

What can I say? I am just me :DD

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

~Ms.E

Queen of the Fourth years

Yeah, the nickname thing...I never have good ones. Any ideas? I'm one of about a million Emilys if that helps.



Oh - passion, stubborness...definately work together, don't they? I don't think people would be on these boards without 'em (passion more than stubborness though). That's why this place is so great!

I would be lying if I said I didn't find Harry's sudden change in character abrupt. It was a great leap to see the rather...bland, passive Harry to suddenly transfigure into angst-mad, self-pitying angry Harry. Yet I can see why he is so angry - what happened last summer would have had longer ramifications than the previous books. Cedric's death was partly his fault, he's been simmering at the Dursleys for the whole summer in a constant state of anxiety and grief - and I suppose some people resort to anger to deal with this. I would have liked to see a more gradual shift in character - but nonetheless, I am happy with this new change.

Elixia, dahling, have I mentioned how nice it is to see you around! I love it when Cinescapers come here! *grin* Ta!



-Siri

~Bitterness: Never be afraid to share your dreams with the world, because there's nothing the world loves more than the taste of really sweet dreams~



Part of the Elite Confused Duo

I'm not so sure if it seemed weird to see him being so, well--snippy with everyone. It's more to the degree of what happened. I've never thought of Harry as being a mean-spirited person, but then again, it was pretty shocking to read about him bitting off the heads of his best friends.



I'm glad Harry's not acting like such a pushover anymore, but I really hope JK doesn't decide to kick it up a notch or two in books to come, if you get what I'm saying. I hope it's just normal, passive teenage angst and stress that's making him act funky, and I don't think I'd like to see it get any worse. ^^



On an odd sidenote, did anyone notice that Draco didn't pick on Harry as much? Maybe it's just me, but I could of sworn.... ^^;



* Ookami







Who says ALL Slytherins are evil? ^^

I actually kind of liked Harry being all moody. I suppose hormones were part of it, but I think all the crap that's happened to him was the main issue. I think he's been bottling it up for years--we got a peek of it when he attacked Sirius in the Shrieking Shack in book 3--and it finally caught up with him. I also didn't really mind him going at his friends--but that's probably just because Harry's my second favorite character (Sirius, of course, is #1) and Ron and Hermione are way down at nine or ten. So whatever he does I justify, make excuses for, even if he is out of line.

Maybe he used to be more passive because he used to have to be when he lived with the Dursleys, and now that's wearing off.

Or maybe this is partly because of his disillusionment with the wizarding world. At first, Hogwarts and the ministry and all were like his saviors, they took him away from Privet drive for most of the year and gave him friends and a home, and so he tried to be properly grateful. But now with Fudge being a jerk and all, he's seeing them as the fallible humans that they are and doesn't feel that same sense of debt, and is even angry at the wizarding world in general for not being what he had hoped it was.

~oh, and a sidenote