I have to agree with that. I might have said this already, but I have to agree withi Little_Rain. It did seem very afterthougt-ish. I mean, we look at Remus in all other books--in all other major battles--and he never gets hurt.

In OotP, in the Dept. of Mysteries, he's one of the few who isn't harmed or killed.(e.g. Tonks is unconsious, Sirius and the...well... you know...).

In HBP when the Death Eaters invade the school, there is not a mark on him. Bill has been mauled, Dumbledore is dead, Neville and Flitwick are hurt. But Remus is fine.

In DH, when the go to get Harry and take him to the Burrow, he's also not injured. Mad-Eye is killed, and yet Remus is still fine. Remus also tells Harry:

Quote::

"But I might still be of some use to you. You now what I am and what I can do. I could come with you to provide protection."--pg. 211

Even Remus knows the chances of him getting hurt are minimal. He knows that he could be used as protection.

And then all of sudden he dies? It seems almost unrealistic to me. I know that sometimes in a war, the people you don't suspect to be killed, are killed, and many times without warning. But it seems to me that a character like Remus--a character that has represented so much in the series and paralled so much--should have in the very least been given a death scene.

No I didn't I didn't like that someone so soft and sweet could be with someone so out going.....Don't get me wrong I like Tonks,its just Remus was alway the quite boy who sat in the front of the class with his face in a book.....And Tonks,the girl who would put hex's on boys for picking on her friend and other kids....In which Remus would do later in life but it's not the same.....Its like puting fire and water together,they just don't mix well...You know what I'm saying.

[quote=Lupita]And then all of sudden he dies?[/quote]

You know, Ive actually thought alot about this. While it does seem that Lupin's death was just kind of tacked on in the end, I kind of expected it. After Sirius' death, he was the last Marauder (for real this time), and he always seemed to just get the brunt of everything. After little Teddy was born, he seemed really happy. If Tonks died before him (and perhaps he saw it), then that could have had an effect.

JK really wasn't gentle at all with those poor boys, so I figured they would all die. Tonks was a bit of a shock to me. I figured that with all of the negativity portrayed with orphaning a child in the series, JK would have left someone for Teddy. I know he has his Godfather and his mom's family, but none of that is gaurenteed in war.

Yeah, using that logic, Lupin seemed to be the next in line, but his role in battles didn't seem to coincide with his sudden demise. If there would have been a death scene to explain the whole situation, then maybe it would have been more understandable, but I felt kinda jipped.

And, Aggiered, I think I read somewhere the J.K. Rowling said Lupin died first. I can't remeber where, but I'm pretty sure it was him. I always kind of wondered if Lupin wasn't in the middle of dueling, saw Tonks coming, freaked out over the idea of his "practically just out of labor" wife coming onto the battlefield, and--in his distraction--got hit. It's a very morbid idea, but still...

Here's the real question: Why was Tonks even there? I know she didn't like the idea of not knowing whether or not her husband was alive, but shouldn't she be with her newborn son? It hadn't been too long after she'd given birth to Teddy, so shouldn't she still have been on bedrest or something?

In the picture Remus shows of Teddy getting his bath, it seems that he is at least a few months old, so Tonks had plenty of time to get over childbirth. Nowadays with c-sections you are back to work around 8 - 10 weeks and even earlier with a natural childbirth. Then if you add healing magic, they are witches and wizards after all, she would pretty much be back in fighting form even quicker.
But I do feel gyped that we didn't get a death scene, Remus was not just a Maurauder but an original Order of the Pheonix member, and Harry's last link to hid Mum and Dad's friends, someone who had been there. They named Harry godfather to their son, so obviously they were closer than some people think. So for two people this close to Harry and not get a death scene is a shame.

Well, I don't have much to say, since I already completely agree with the points that Cazza, Mara and Kat have made, and can't expand on any of them.

A point that I am able to expand on, however, is the one concerning why Harry called Remus Remus, and not not Lupin.

Zen_Lady wrote:

Finally, the wording of the sentence above struck me. It says Remus and Tonks whereas much of the series referred to him as Lupin. This seems to me a little device to make his character seem dearer to the reader and to make his loss more dramatic and sad. I can’t think of any other reason… when Harry agonizes over their deaths, he’s thinking Lupin and Tonks

Well, you mayn't be able to think of a reason, but I can. Don't you call any adults by their first names, or do you call them by their last? I.e., would you call someone named "John Doe", John, or Mr. Doe, Doe, etc.? And do adults call other adults by their first names, or their last? In this same example, would another adult call John Doe John, or Doe?

I think that Harry's finally calling Remus by his first name is showing that Harry is becoming more grown-up and mature. Just as normal adults call eachother by their first names, so do adults in the wizarding world--You never see Dumbledore calling McGonagal Professor McGonagal, it's always and only Minerva.

Kat wrote:

It is significant that suddenly 'Remus' pops up - Harry is suddenly very emotionally connected to him, seeing him not as a teacher but as another person who has lost his life fighting for him.

Again, I agree with you, Kat. Not only is Harry suddenly more mature and aware of things in the "real world", he's aware that people are risking their lives for him. This makes the entire war suddenly much more personal, therefore, leads to Harry calling more adults by their first names.

This is my first time posting on these forums, so bear with me.

To quote quite a few people, I loved that Remus showed more emotion and lost his temper. I love that, if you couldn't really see Remus's self-deprecation and flaws before, it was really made obvious. I think that while Remus may not have screamed, "I LOVE NYMPHADORA TONKS" at the top of his lungs, his actions proved that he did. At the surface, some of the stuff he did in DH (like leaving Tonks) may seem heartless at the surface, but when you look at the root, the very cause of the action, you can see that it's motivated by an intense love for his wife and his son. If he hadn't cared about what happened to Tonks, he would have rode it out with her. But since he did love her, he left, thinking that if he wasn't there, the stigma that surrounded her because of him would be eradicated.

Also, on the whole Remus and Tonks during HBP thing, I don't think Remus would have lead her on that long. In the hospital wing, he didn't say, "No, I don't have any feelings for you, now leave me alone," he says that he's not good enough for her, which basically means, "I want to be with you, and I do love you, but you deserve someone better."

Wow. I didn't intend to write that much >_> That's just my two cents

honksfortonks wrote:

In the hospital wing, he didn't say, "No, I don't have any feelings for you, now leave me alone," he says that he's not good enough for her, which basically means, "I want to be with you, and I do love you, but you deserve someone better."

I agree, Remus did love Tonks, but his protective nature told him to stay away. Although he tried to hide his feelings for her, they were, in fact, there. I was quite surprised when I found out he died- and sad. He had just found happiness, gone back to Dora, had a son- but all of a sudden he died. Also, (tell me if I'm being overly picky) but I would never have thought that Remus would have died at Hogwarts. I mean; Hogwarts was where he made friends, where he was truly accepted, and where he met Dumbledore who helped him get through school AND gave him a teaching position.

Also, although we don't know too much about Tonks's past, I must also point out that it was none other than Bellatric who killed Tonks. (I found that out during a Q&A) Bellatrix killed her own niece! Dora had just gotten married to Remus and started a family. She had a beautiful son too. But she too died at Hogwarts; where she doubtlessly made friends and had a great time.

As for Harry calling Remus by his first name, I think it does represent Harry becoming more mature, like Meggy said, but I also think it represents Harry finally feeling closer to Remus. After Sirius died, I always felt that Remus might take over with protecting Harry. Harry might have thought of him as he would Ron or Hermione friendship-wise.

NintenDog_Star, I quite agree with you here. I didn't think he would die at Hogwarts either, let alone die at all...especially just after marrying and having a son and all. It feels like Harry all over again, and I really didn't want that to happen, but I also think that Harry will be able to be there for Teddy a lot more than Sirius was able to be for him, due to imprisonment and such.

I also agree with your last thoughts there about Harry becoming more mature and closer to Remus in such a way that he felt, I don't know...would you say comfortable? enough to basically yell at him and actually be sort of disappointed in him when he wanted to leave Tonks to follow along with the trio.

I also know that there are a few run-on sentences in here, and I apologize for it. The one thing I have always sucked at is comma placement. -sighs-

Lupita wrote:

I have to agree with that. I might have said this already, but I have to agree withi Little_Rain. It did seem very afterthougt-ish. I mean, we look at Remus in all other books--in all other major battles--and he never gets hurt. In OotP, in the Dept. of Mysteries, he's one of the few who isn't harmed or killed.(e.g. Tonks is unconsious, Sirius and the...well... you know...). In HBP when the Death Eaters invade the school, there is not a mark on him. Bill has been mauled, Dumbledore is dead, Neville and Flitwick are hurt. But Remus is fine. In DH, when the go to get Harry and take him to the Burrow, he's also not injured. Mad-Eye is killed, and yet Remus is still fine. Remus also tells Harry: Quote:: "But I might still be of some use to you. You now what I am and what I can do. I could come with you to provide protection."--pg. 211 Even Remus knows the chances of him getting hurt are minimal. He knows that he could be used as protection. And then all of sudden he dies? It seems almost unrealistic to me. I know that sometimes in a war, the people you don't suspect to be killed, are killed, and many times without warning. But it seems to me that a character like Remus--a character that has represented so much in the series and paralled so much--should have in the very least been given a death scene.

Apologies for reaching back to respond to an older post, but I actually believed at one point that this very repetition as described above Meant Something. (And don't forget that Remus also has an Avada Kedavra miss him during the battle in HBP! If that didn't establish him as potentially unique, I don't know what would.) To keep writing him as if he were untouchable by Dark Magic for some undisclosed reason and then merely produce the thudding anticlimax of an off-the-cuff off-screen death at the hands of a third-rate Death Eater not only went against what seemed a deliberate pattern, it did the character a genuine disservice.

And to think that JKR had told David Thewlis that Remus was her favorite character. After the events of DH, this claim fails to hold much, if any, water in my admittedly not so humble opinion.

To sigitolo, JKR said in an interview that she had to kill Remus off, though it pained her. Here is the exact quote.

Quote::

Meredith Vieira: So what happened there? Why did he get the reprieve? J.K. Rowling: Well, I swapped him for someone else, and I don't want to say who for the people who haven't-- read. But I-- I made a decision as I went into writing Phoenix that I was going to reprieve Mr. Weasley and I was going to kill someone else. And if you finish the book, I-- I expect you probably know and someone else who is a father. And I wanted there to be an echo of-- of Harry's loss of parents. And you probably know who I'm talking about if you've finished the book. But-- so there are two characters who are killed in (book) Seven. So Mr. Weasley did get attacked, as you know, in Five. But he would have died if I'd have stuck to the original plan. But he survived. I had to keep him alive partly-- partly because I couldn't bear to kill him. Meredith Vieira: But there were two that weren't supposed to die that did end up dying. J.K. Rowling: Yeah, yeah. I swapped them for Mr. Weasley. But they didn't then die until Seven.

And also on the site I found that Dolohov killed Remus and Bella killed Tonks. That little *AHEM* killed two of the coolest people!!!! I'm so glad Molly gave her a piece of what she deserved!! Now who's laughing?!

Umm...yeah...got a little carried away, didn't we? Sorry...


~Pawprint

I was personally worried for a bit that Remus did not have feelings for Tonks until the chapter Shell Cottage, where he repeatedly calls her Dora. Since it is often emphasized how much Tonks hates being called anything but her surname, we must assume that her husband has gotten close enough to her to have the right to call her that. I thought that was adorable. I just wanted to squeeze Remus so hard, cause he was finally so happy.

I felt very angry when Remus and Tonks died. They didn't even get a death scene!

Yeah. I thought that them not having a death scene was kinda like a slap in the face. I didn't even believe it when I read that they had died. It was such a total shock. Who doesn't want to squeeze Remus?? He's so sweet!!!



~Pawprint

I think in previous chapters, Remus did love her, but he was kind of hesistant . . . probably due to the fact that he was still getting used to having a wife/family, etc. By the time the chapter "Shell Cottage" came up, Remus had had a good 9 months to think about being a dad and having a family with his wife. (If that sounded redundant, I'm sorry)

Quote::

No I didn't I didn't like that someone so soft and sweet could be with someone so out going.....Don't get me wrong I like Tonks,its just Remus was alway the quite boy who sat in the front of the class with his face in a book.....And Tonks,the girl who would put hex's on boys for picking on her friend and other kids....In which Remus would do later in life but it's not the same.....Its like puting fire and water together,they just don't mix well...You know what I'm saying.

That's just going on apperances. Remus appears soft and sweet, but really, him and Tonks share quite a few qualities. They're intelligent, loyal, mischievious, etc. They're direct opposites, but it just sort of works. She's mischievious and outgoing on the outside, but serious on the inside, and Remus is quiet and serious on the outside, and mischievious on the inside. It all sort of balances out.

I was just happy that Remus got *some* sort of action. Tonks has never been one of my favs, in fact, I seem to forget about her easily. How you forget someone with pink hair, Ill never know....but thats another topic all together.

I relate Remus' issue with the whole family situation to his past. Because of the whole wolf thing, he led a primarily solitary life. Being thrown quickly into the middle of family life would defintely take a toll on a life long loner. He just needed someone to whip his rear into shape. This was done courtesy of Harry's verbal backhand. And you have to give the poor guy a bit of a break regardless. I know many men who have had a freak out when learning that their spouses were pregnanty when said pregnancy wasnt exactly *planned*. Big changes often get big reactions. In fact, for such a unique man, Id say that Remus acted pretty normally.

Its sad that Remus didnt get to be a dad for very long. I think he would have been a great one. He defintiely would have understood the whole awkward teenager stage...

And I would like to second (or hundredth) the outrage over the lack of a death scene. WTF Jo? Im holding out for the movie though. I know Yates has left out some doozies, but I have faith in him. Im expecting everything we want to show up sooner or later. And hopefully, he wont shaft two of his most unique characters. Especially if we begin begging now....